Update: Here is a story about the Wednesday meeting on the New Kid’s View blog.
WISN 12 was in South Milwaukee to cover Wednesday’s meeting of Walmart opponents.
Check out the story and video here.
It was a fair and balanced piece that showed clearly the emotions surrounding this issue — sentiments I absolutely respect and, in some caes, agree with.
I expect to hear similar sentiments at Tuesday’s City Council meeting at 7 p.m. at City Hall. And I welcome the continued feedback.
On a related note, I want to thank readers of this blog for the tone of the ongoing dialog about the Walmart project. I appreciate the rational and intelligent nature of the debate on these pages. Dozens of people have posted comments here in the last few weeks, easily pushing blog traffic to an all-time high, and I have yet to see anything inappropriate.
It is much appreciated. I want this blog to be a respected forum for debating important community business, and readers are delivering on that promise. Thank you.
South Milwaukee Blog 
Thank you for your work in keeping South Milwaukeeans informed. You’re a one-man news bureau! As you know, I don’t always agree with your position, but very much appreciate your intentions and efforts.
Thanks for post this, Erik. Please note that there are a number of 1st District people as well that want the Walmart, myself included. As it happens, we are not normally the vocal ones that put on color coordinated t-shirts to protest at meetings and we believe that recall is an “extraordinary” device that should be used for gross malfeasance rather than good-faith political opinions that we may not agree with.
Remember, this land has historically been commercial and manufacturing. I could understand a degree of complaints if, for example, SM was tearing down an apartment complex and changing it to commercial, but everyone knows what this land was and what types of businesses would likely show up at some point.
I have seen no new arguments that would suggest that the Council would change their votes (or in your case, the way you would have voted). Please don’t give in to the delay tactics.
Well stated!
Very well said SM Guy. I agree fully with you.
“Massive” grassroots effort? 200 people??? Just wish there had been a “massive” amount of people at the PSC meeting, that with the blessing of the city council, jacked up our water rates 58%.
You are right melanie. I sent an email to the PSC stating i am against the increase. About 3 to 4 days later I receive an email from the water dept stating why the increase was justified. Go Figure…the PSC giving the names and emails of people against the increase. You are going to see an increase in your recycling charge on your tax bill come December as wasstated by Erik in this blog.
I think the people are wishing they had a voice in this decision. At the meeting they asked if it could be on a referendum. Many of us did not know the city was making a deal with WalMart. From the posts on here I guess no one will complain about spending the 1.8 million for clean up. I can only say I am hoping you are right and this will not create a traffic problem. I hope you are right that the road will be able to accomodate the cars, trucks etc. without widening North Chicago. I hope Oak Creek does put a shopping center where the Delphi plant was located. Hopefully they will attract many business, both large and small. They have the land and with a double lane road it will be easy to go there shopping.
If this would have gone to a referendum, it would have passed. “There is life beyond the 1st District!”
To clarify a few points you made, $1.8 million is the maximum amount the city will contribute based on estimates to environmentally clean up the land. $800,000 of that is for the city owned land which will need to be paid by the city whether Walmart moves in or not because no new owner will foot that bill. Would you buy a house that needs to have an oil tank removed? The vast majority of people would make it a condition of the sale that the current owner pay to have the tank removed. Walmart is actually willing to pay for at least half of the $3.6 million estimate. As is the case with everything, the cleanup costs will only continue to increase as time passes.
As far as traffic, North Chicago will be widened by one lane at Walmart’s expense. This will allow dedicated left turn lanes to Walmart from the south and Badger Avenue from the north. There will also be a dedicated right turn lane into Walmart from the north as well as an additional lane for through traffic. The traffic signal, intended to keep traffic flowing…not hinder it, will also be paid for by Walmart. There were also discussions during the last council meeting about identifying an entrance off of College Avenue at 11th Avenue in order to have people traveling east on College have the opportunity to enter Walmart before turning onto North Chicago. Walmart was willing to listen to alternatives.
As far as your voice being heard, you did have that chance by voting for your aldermen to make these decisions. Based on your comments above, if you live in the 1st District, your aldermen voted the way you wanted them to. As is the case with a democracy, this time they were out-voted 5-2 (6-2 if you include Alderman Brooks statement in this blog that he would have voted “yes”). I’m sure your aldermen would love to hear constructive comments on how you think this project could be improved upon.
I hope this helped clarify a few things about this project. Alderman Brooks can comment if I stated anything incorrectly.
Chris: You are correct, although I think the only widening of Chicago Avenue is going to be southbound — adding a right-turn lane for those heading into the Walmart parking lot. That’s how I understand it.
Correct. I didn’t clarify that the additional lane is southbound.
The anti-Walmart crowd is out in force this weekend. If or when they come to your door, you may want to ask them a couple questions:
1. Why are you against this project?
2. What alternatives do you have for this land?
My prediction is the answers you receive will include the following:
1. There will be increased traffic on North Chicago, east and west on College, east on Badger, on Rawson, on Lake Drive, on 15th, on Nicholson and through the Oak Creek Parkway. There will be increased crime. There will be increased trash. Walmart will encourage unsavory people to come to South Milwaukee (“white trash” has been a comment I’ve heard more than a few times). Walmart is being built in a residential area. The city should not be paying $1.8 dollars to subsidize this development. Walmart will kill other businesses. Walmart doesn’t treat its suppliers well. Walmart doesn’t pay its employees a living wage. Walmart doesn’t pay its employees benefits. Walmart won’t pay taxes. Every other community has turned away Walmart. Walmart sells Chinese goods.
2. Be patient and wait for a better alternative. There may be a man (unnamed) who may want to build a factory (unnamed). There are several other possible proposals.
Here are some things to consider regarding these answers:
1. Some of the traffic claims are valid but many are a stretch and in some cases are ridiculous. There will be increased traffic on North Chicago and west on College. This is a good thing because it will bring people from the outside into South Milwaukee giving them exposure to what South Milwaukee has to offer. To minimize this traffic increase, an extra lane of traffic will be constructed to allow dedicated right and left turn lanes into Walmart so as not to impede traffic flow on North Chicago. Additionally, a traffic signal will be installed to assist with the flow of traffic, not impede it. Both of these will be paid for by Walmart. There has also been discussion about utilizing 11th Avenue off of College from the west as another means of getting to Walmart which would alleviate even more traffic from turning onto North Chicago. The Cudahy Kmart is over 80,000 square feet and I have never…NEVER…been held up in traffic on Packard Avenue at that entrance and there are no dedicated right and left turn lanes. I also don’t understand the perception that the new traffic signal will encourage people to travel down Badger Avenue. It is meant to make it easier for residents leaving Badger to get onto North Chicago. Looking at the Franklin Walmart entrance (which is also used by Sam’s Club, Home Depot, Mobil and a strip mall), how many cars travel straight through onto Sycamore Avenue in Oak Creek? The answer is essentially none. Most cars turn right or left onto 27th Street. The same will be true for the South Milwaukee Walmart. The only cars that will travel straight on Badger will be people who live in the immediate neighborhood. Traffic increase claims on 15th, Oak Creek Parkway, Lake Drive and Rawson border on the absurd. Most people from outside the city don’t even know about many of these streets let alone want to travel them. We may as well lament the traffic that will be increased on Drexel, Forest Hill, Puetz, Layton and Highway 100 while we’re at it as a result of this development.
Regarding an increase in crime and trash, both are true. The majority of crime will not be of a violent nature but rather of the shoplifting variety and will occur no matter what business moves in. Regarding trash, the expectation should be that all businesses in the area, not just Walmart, keep their businesses clean and presentable. I don’t remember hearing any opposition regarding trash when all the fast food establishments (including Pizza Hut, Taco Bell and KFC), which typically produce a much bigger increase in trash than Walmart ever will, moved into the area.
Regarding an unsavory element coming into South Milwaukee, some of these comments are reprehensible and are racist in nature. I shop at Walmart and apparently am part of the “white trash” that shops there. I take great offense to this and the city should not be considering this as part of its decision-making process.
As far as Walmart being built in a residential area, this land is not, nor has it ever been residential. It is true that residential areas are nearby as is the case with every business area, however to state that this development is in a residential area is just not true.
The $1.8 million contribution by the city for this project is at least a valid argument that can be debated, however some clarifications are needed as to what exactly has been proposed. $1.8 million is the maximum amount the city will contribute based on estimates to environmentally clean up the land. $800,000 of that is for the city owned land which will need to be paid by the city whether Walmart moves in or not because no new owner will foot that bill. Would you buy a house that needs to have an oil tank removed? The vast majority of people would make it a condition of the sale that the current owner pay to have the tank removed. Walmart is actually willing to pay for at least half of the $3.6 million estimate. As is the case with everything, the cleanup costs will only continue to increase as time passes.
As to the other complaints about Walmart regarding their alleged business tactics, this is not something government should be using in the decision-making process unless we are looking to live in a Socialist country where government will control what businesses will pay and how they will operate. The majority of websites that have been offered by the group as reference material are far left-wing, pro-union propoganda that has almost the exact same wording as every anti-Walmart website created in the country. If someone doesn’t like where Walmart gets its merchandise, what it pays its employees or how it treats its suppliers, people have the choice and freedom not to shop or work there. On the comment about Walmart not paying taxes, the city of South Milwaukee collects property taxes. I would like somebody to explain to me how Walmart would avoid paying property taxes. The argument about TIF districts and how some property tax money is used to pay off the district’s debts is a city issue, not a Walmart issue. If the complaint is about income taxes, the complaint should be made with the state and federal governments who set tax law. Walmart, as well as most other companies, are playing by the rules specified in the tax code.
As far as Walmart killing other businesses in the city, exactly what businesses will it be “killing”? Two examples I’ve heard mentioned are Ace Hardware and Lancer TV. Ace Hardware has been already hurt so badly not only by the Franklin Walmart, but also by Menards, Home Depot and Lowes, that it opened a second store in Oak Creek…closer to those other businesses! Ace survives and will continue to thrive because it knows how to compete by offering a level of service that the others don’t offer. Lancer TV sells and repairs televisions. Walmart does not offer TV repair services. Again, Lancer offers a level of service, including TV setup, consultation and repair, that Walmart does not. Additionally, last time I looked, all of the area Walmarts are exploding with new businesses around them, many of which directly compete with products Walmart provides (including but certainly not limited to Home Depot, Lowes, Verizon, Walgreens, Pick ‘n Save and Marshall’s)…hardly the job killing business people claim them to be. Walmart is a business catalyst, not a business killer.
Regarding Walmart being turned down in most other Milwaukee-area communities, other than Cudahy, please explain what other communities have turned them down. Walmart have been or are currently being expanded in Franklin, Greenfield and Milwaukee and new Walmarts have been approved in Milwaukee, West Milwaukee and even Greendale because they understand the value it will bring. I know some in Cudahy are regretting their decision as well.
2. Regarding the lack of patience in embracing this project and the desire to wait for something “better”, this land has been sitting vacant and collecting no property taxes for years and, to date, there have been no concrete proposals for the land other than Walmart’s. References to vague proposals from unnamed businesses are not concrete and are nothing more tha stall tactics. I believe the city has been more than patient and needs to get this land back on the tax rolls. Cudahy stated a similar philosophy regarding the wait for something “better” to come along when turning down Walmart several years back. The only thing they got was an empty plot of land that they keep pumping money into. South Milwaukee should learn from that and not make the same mistake.
To date, it appears the anti-Walmart crowd has nothing constructive to offer. There apparently is no middle ground and the only solution is “no Walmart in South Milwaukee”. Some say that it is not Walmart specifically but any “big box” retailer, however if this was a Kohl’s wanting to move into this area, we’d be hearing crickets.
This city needs to decide if it is going to be pro-business or exclusively a bedroom community. If it chooses the latter then residents shouldn’t complain about the downtown area being rundown and empty and that taxes are too high or services have been cut to an unacceptable level. (I will personally push for cuts in services because I don’t want another increase in taxes which are already too high). A purely residential community cannot sustain the level of services we currently have. Businesses pay for both the school system and garbage collection but the vast majority of them don’t utilize either. This lowers everyone’s taxes.
Also, don’t think that other businesses aren’t watching. If this proposal is voted down, they will view South Milwaukee as anti-business and won’t waste their time going through what Walmart has gone through. They will set up shop in adjacent communities, have South Milwaukeeans travel there and pay taxes in those communities instead of South Milwaukee. In today’s world, businesses cannot survive in South Milwaukee with customers only from South Milwaukee. South Milwaukee cannot afford to live in a bubble if it wants to thrive in the future.
The anti-Walmart crowd is certainly free to go around town to explain their point of view. Just make sure you get all the facts before you make your decision because you will only hear one side of the story. If you feel South Milwaukee should be pro-business, please let your aldermen know via e-mail, letter or phone.
That’s it. My rant is over. Thanks for reading.
Chris, I want to add two things to your post…
I was at KMart last week picking up some small items and there were about 10 cars in the lot. All I could think of was, oh my goodness, think of all the people that travel out to Howell avenue to spend their money. If we had more stores in a close proximity people would shop in their neighborhood instead of traveling. Of course that would mean more prosperity for our community.
Also, I agree with your comments related to ‘racism’; living in this community for my 40 of 41 years and being the granddaughter of a legal Mexican immigrant I am greatly disappointed with comments I heard at the public hearing where one of the ‘folks’ against Walmart yelled out, “those signs better be in espanol too.” How absolutely ignorant!
I may or may not shop there, but see great value in this store coming to our city. We need to revitalize the city and make progress.
The so-called “Friends of South Milwaukee” agenda has become apparent. It is not about traffic or location, it’s about hating Walmart. Their website is filled with half-truths that are contained in every Walmart haters literature you see across the country.
I love how their website makes a point of dismissing the racism claims as “hogwash”, however you and I heard what we heard. I don’t use the racism term often as I think it is often overplayed, but there is no way around the comments that were made. I don’t see any condemnation on their website about the comments. It’s also intersting that not one name appears on their website. Who are the members of this “friends” group. Perhaps the people organizing it don’t even live in the city.
The “Friends of South Milwaukee” are clearly no friends of business.
Chris H. – The following was provided by whois.domaintools.com, which is a normal website that can be used to find the person or organization that owns the domain name. (That site lists a phone number and email of the registrant as well, but I didn’t think it appropriate to post all here.) It does not appear that the registrant has a SOUTH Milwaukee address as you surmised.
Registrar: FastDomain Inc.
Provider Name….: iPage Inc.
Provider Whois…: whois.fastdomain.com
Provider Homepage: http://www.ipage.com/
Domain Name: FRIENDSOFSOUTHMILWAUKEE.COM
Created on…………..: 2011-10-25 02:25:26 GMT
Expires on…………..: 2012-10-25 02:25:26 GMT
Last modified on……..: 2011-10-25 02:25:26 GMT
Registrant Info: (FAST-16555912)
Amy Stollenwerk
Amy Stollenwerk
na
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53208
United States